THEME

Amanda Smith: Today, the spirit of soccer. With the World Cup underway this week, we join Scottish and Brazilian Australians, primed up for the first match of the finals.

CHEERS

Didi: It's the best feeling that you can have as a human being. If you really follow soccer, you always will be waiting for this moment. It's four years that we have been waiting, since '94. We start everything again. It's the best feeling, it's fantastic.

CHEERS

Pauline: My face is painted with a Scottish flag on each cheek. I have a Scotland official '98 World Cup top on, and I have the Scottish flag round my legs.

SINGING

Amanda Smith: And more on the Scottish and Brazilian experience in Australia, of that first World Cup match, later in the program.

Hi, I'm Amanda Smith: and first up on The Sports Factor, to the home of English soccer, where big changes are about to take place.

Announcer: And time for the traditional Cup Final hymn, as Wembley hushes around these vast terracings and the Band of the Royal Marines and the Derek Taverner Singers prepare to perform 'Abide With Me'. The crowd are being asked to stand in respect and the conductor's baton is raised.

INTRO TO HYMN

Amanda Smith: Unmistakably, the FA Cup Final at Wembley, the world's best-known soccer venue, which is about to be radically reshaped into England's National Stadium.

And the person who's just been given the job of designing the new Wembley is Rod Sheard, an Australian architect based in London. He's also the architect of the Sydney Olympic Stadium, and the Melbourne Docklands Stadium. But unlike these two projects, Wembley is of course an existing venue that holds a special place in people's hearts. So, is it necessary to pull the whole thing down and start again? Rod Sheard.

Rod Sheard: It is. The old venue is built on the top of a hill and it's pretty well impossible to retain much of it because it was built as a running venue back in the 1920s, and it's very difficult to retain very much of it at all. So the general opinion is that everything will go and we'll start again from fresh.

Amanda Smith: Well what's the public feeling there about the old stadium going? I mean surely it is regarded as a site of great historic and cultural and nostalgic significance?

Rod Sheard: Oh huge, huge significance. I think the general feeling is that it's time that it goes. It's been pretty well recognised by both people who use it and the people in sport that it's outlived its usefulness. It's undergone a range of redevelopment over the years in various stages to try and improve it, but it's fundamentally of a bowl form, and a shape that just cannot be improved any further. And the modern requirements of these stadia are always moving on, as we've seen in Australia, and I think everybody recognises that it's time for the old girl to be totally redeveloped. Of course there's huge significance attached to the twin towers that you may be familiar with, which is the visual image, the visual icon of the stadium.

Amanda Smith: And what is the state of play with the twin towers?

Rod Sheard: Well the twin towers are orientated in a central axis off Wembley Way, Olympic Way at one stage, and that's really a very important visual access for the stadium. Unfortunately they really are in a place which is virtually impossible to leave them, so they are either going to have to be removed altogether, or they're going to have to be relocated if they're going to be retained. And no decision's been taken on that at this stage; the brief is still being developed as to exactly what the requirements are for the new stadium, but it's pretty likely that the twin towers will get a pretty good talking about.

Amanda Smith: Would you say the soul of Wembley resides in the building, in the site itself, or more in public memory I suppose?

Rod Sheard: I think there's a great deal in public memory. The building is the focus of it, the representation of it, but it pretty well applies to almost any stadium over here. Any of the old football clubs that have been around for 100 years or so, all have their huge memories, but some of them just have to be repositioned. I mean it's not an uncommon thing here to, when you die, to have your ashes spread on your favourite football ground. We work at Arsenal, and they were telling me the other day that about 100 people have their ashes spread on their hallowed pitch every year. Wembley is much the same. People would do anything to be part of the Wembley venue, but I don't think that the bricks and mortar, or the concrete and steel in that particular case, really embody anything that can't be replaced. It's the site that probably is the most important thing.

Amanda Smith: Well what does this conception of the new Wembley being the National Stadium actually mean, Rod?

Rod Sheard: The National Stadium is really the single focus for sport in a country. It's important for any sport that you have some kind of progression, that when you start off at school, you aspire to play on the school grounds and have your fellow peers applaud you; and then if you get better at sport, you probably have some aspirations of playing at a club level, and at a club stadium. And then you should progress upwards, and I think it's very important that you have that hierarchy, so that the ultimate goal of anybody who plays soccer or rugby in the UK, is to eventually play at Wembley if you get good enough. It is very much the top of the tree, the very pinnacle.

Amanda Smith: Wembley is primarily known and used and loved as a soccer venue, where the annual FA Cup Final is held, and memorably of course the site of England's World Cup win back in 1966. There's also been some famous concerts staged there: the Live Aid concert, for example. Will the new Wembley remain primarily a soccer venue or are there more uses planned for it?

Rod Sheard: It will be primarily a soccer venue, and that's mainly because England is a primarily soccer nation, the most popular sport is soccer, and in fact the way the stadium will be funded is largely through soccer. But that doesn't mean that other sports won't be played there, and certainly rugby league is a regular attender. The rugby league final is always held at Wembley. Concerts will certainly continue to be a significant element in the overall event calendar, and it's expected, although nothing has been defined on this as yet, that the venue should be able to take athletics. London is presently putting together a bid to go for the Olympic Games one of these days, and it's expected that Wembley probably would be the venue for that.

Amanda Smith: So when's the old Wembley due for demolition, Rod, and when's the new one due for completion?

Rod Sheard: The general plan is to hold the next FA Cup Final in the old Wembley, which will be the '99 FA Cup Final, knock the stadium down after that, and have it open for the 2002 FA Cup Final.

Amanda Smith: And where will the 2000 and 2001 Cup Finals be held?

Rod Sheard: Well nobody really knows that right now. There's a couple of venues in the UK that can take that sort of crowd: Twickenham, or the new Millennium Stadium in Cardiff we're presently building, and it will be finished next year. They're probably the two largest venues, but nobody's made a decision on that yet.

Amanda Smith: Now I know that England, along with other countries, Germany and South Africa I think, is planning a bid for hosting the 2006 Soccer World Cup. Is this new Wembley Stadium a key part of that bid?

Rod Sheard: I think it is a fairly key part. With the election of Sepp Blatter to the presidency of the FIFA organisation, I think that the general perception in England is that they stand a slightly better chance of being appointed in 2006, but we'll have to wait a little while to see what happens there. But I think certainly the new Wembley Stadium, the new National Stadium, will be the venue if they do hold it.

Amanda Smith: Rod Sheard, from Lobb Sports Architecture, speaking to me there from London about the new Wembley.

But while the old stadium is still standing, let's go back to its earliest days. Wembley's a place with a lot of mystique and folklore around it, as English sports historian, Jeff Hill, knows only too well.

Jeff Hill: Well Amanda, it was built in 1923, indeed it opened in 1923. It was built over the period from 1922 to 1923, and the reason for its being constructed was that a consortium of interests, including the British Government and various private concerns, wanted to create an Empire Exhibition to celebrate the British Empire. And Wembley Stadium was to be part of a large campus, so to speak, 225 acres of it, which would include pavilions and various showpiece buildings which would illustrate the activities of the various parts of the British Empire, including of course Australia and Canada, and various other colonies.

Amanda Smith: So it was built for the British Empire Exhibition held in 1924-1925, which I think was the last Empire Exhibition, wasn't it? But was it always conceived as a sports venue, particularly a soccer stadium?

Jeff Hill: Not entirely, no. The initial use was to be multipurpose. Many of the activities that went on there during the course of the two seasons of the Exhibition were historical pageants and displays of gymnasts and that kind of thing, often of course with a strongly imperial theme. So that most of its use at that time, wasn't to do with sports as usually understood, and certainly not to do with soccer. And that continued to be the case because although I suppose Wembley became best known to most people as a soccer stadium, simply because it was the venue of the very famous Football Association Cup Final, for the rest of the time Wembley was used for a whole host of different activities. The main one was greyhound racing, and there were at least three nights a week in which people came to spend money on betting on the dogs. And then in the 1930s, on the basis of the success of that kind of venture, the stadium company introduced the new sport, which I think had been very popular in America, and also perhaps in Australia before England, of speedway racing. And speedway racing became very popular in the 1930s, and very profitable.

Amanda Smith: Nevertheless it has of course become best known I suppose, or most famous, as the venue for soccer. Tell me about the first FA Cup Final that was held at Wembley?

Jeff Hill: Oh in 1923, this was the Cup Final between Bolton Wanderers and West Ham United, which Bolton Wanderers won by 2 goals to nil. But most people I think don't remember the occasion for the match itself, or even the winners, but for the scenes that took place before the match started. Because for hours on the 28th April 1923, North London was in utter chaos, because so many people had forgathered at Wembley to see this magnificent new stadium, which had just been constructed. The place had been much hyped, as we would say nowadays, because of this tremendous new stadium. I mean for the time, it did look very, very good, there was really nothing like it in the world, and of course it meant that at least half as many people again as the stadium was capable of accommodating, which at that stage was 125,000 people, at least half as many again turned up, and forced entry into the stadium. So it was utter chaos.

Amanda Smith: And wasn't there a policeman on a big white horse who managed to --

Jeff Hill: Yes, that's the key part of the myth of Wembley 1923, Amanda. Constable Storey, on his horse Billie. And it was alleged that Constable Storey's good sense caused the pitch to be cleared. In fact there were other mounted policemen available, and doing that job at the time, but it all added to the myth that there was this policeman on the white horse who calmed the seething crowds. And really this was one of the most interesting, and I think probably most important aspects of building up the subsequent mystique of Wembley. People looked back on this occasion and were encouraged and reassured that this was a story about how orderly and sensible and rational and well-behaved and deferential the English people really were. It was a very nice story to tell about themselves.

Amanda Smith: Now when and why did the singing of the hymn, 'Abide With Me', begin as a tradition that's sung at the start of the FA Cup Finals at Wembley?

Jeff Hill: That's really interesting, and I think a very important piece of cultural history that many people have overlooked actually. It started in 1927. During the course of the '20s, from 1923 onwards, the pre-match program, celebrations prior to the kick-off at Wembley, had become increasingly orchestrated and stage-managed. For example, military bands were introduced and so forth, and a Master of Ceremonies was brought in to lead the crowd in community singing, just to give them something to do before the kick-off. And in 1927, it was decided to introduce the hymn, 'Abide With Me', which some stories say was a popular hymn of the Queen at the time, Queen Mary, but it did prove to be tremendously popular. The words, of course, have absolutely nothing to do with Association Football. It's a hymn about approaching death, and about a man who is preparing to meet his maker. The tune of the hymn is very important Amanda, because it's extremely plangent, emotional. It's easily sung by an untrained group of people, and it does seem to have struck a chord in the tremendous crowds at Wembley who gathered there. And it was a moment of terrific emotion and respect, and I think we've got to read that in the context of the time, the 1920s and the 1930s when people were still extremely aware of the Great War and people who died in the war, and the idea of war memorials and Remembrance Days was very, very strong. And I think the singing of 'Abide With Me' at the Cup Final was another aspect of that process of remembrance.

MASS SINGING OF 'ABIDE WITH ME' AT WEMBLEY

Amanda Smith: The signature hymn of the FA Cup Final, at the Wembley Stadium. And speaking to me there about the old Wembley, which will be demolished next year, was Jeff Hill, who's Reader in Historical and Cultural Studies at Nottingham Trent University, in the UK.

Well the four-yearly World Cup for Soccer is underway in France, and over the next five weeks, the 32 qualifying countries will play out the hopes and aspirations of fans all over the world. Sadly, the Australian Socceroos are not among the contenders, despite more effort and money being put into Australia's World Cup campaign this time round than ever before. It's a sad tale that soccer journalist and enthusiast, Michael Cockerill has just detailed in a book called 'Australian Soccer's Long Road to the Top'. And while the end of that road to the top is not yet in sight, this particular leg of the journey began in November 1996, when the English soccer guru, Terry Venables, was announced as the coach of the Australian team.

Michael Cockerill recalls the response to this appointment.

Michael Cockerill: Shock, surprise. There was some very patronising attitudes from people in England, of course, where Terry comes from and is famous. It was compared to managing the Jamaican bobsled team and other such references. That was I guess the feeling of the establishment in world football. Back here in Australia, shock and surprise as well, but a little bit of dismay maybe, because people here believed, well a lot of people in the game believed, that it should have gone to a local and there were a number of very worthwhile candidates. So Terry had a lot to prove once he got into the job.

Amanda Smith: Well in your view, back then and now in retrospect, was he the best person for the job?

Michael Cockerill: I was one of those who was probably sceptical about his appointment at the time. I really hoped that he'd do the job, which was to get us to the World Cup. He didn't. So I guess in hindsight, (it's a wonderful thing isn't it, hindsight) I can probably say it didn't work. Maybe the people that had doubts were right. The people who went for the appointment, of course it was a very audacious move by David Hill who will defend it to his dying day, and he has some good reasons to as well, but ultimately Terry Venables was paid a very handsome retainer for a very specific job, and that was to qualify the Socceroos for the World Cup and he didn't. So I guess that's how he should ultimately be judged.

Amanda Smith: So why were you sceptical at the time?

Michael Cockerill: Principally because Terry wasn't going to come and live in Australia, and I found that unbelievable. There was all sorts of talk, 'Well it won't really matter, most of our players are based in Europe' etc. etc. 'Soccer's a global game, it doesn't matter where you are you can still do the job'. But I'm one of those who believe that if you're going to go into something, you have to go into it 110%, and it wasn't possible for him to do that while he continued to live in London, and I think that was proved correct in the end.

Amanda Smith: Now that final qualifying game in Australia's campaign to the World Cup Finals, against Iran at the Melbourne Cricket Ground last November, that would have to have been both the greatest and the worst moment in the history of Australian soccer, I think. Do you see it like that?

Michael Cockerill: Oh absolutely. I mean I've been to games all over the world with the Socceroos, and I've never experienced the sort of emotion that I experienced that night. It's still hard to talk about it in a way, because I knew a lot of those players, I knew how much it meant to, particularly the senior players, and they had it there, you know, they could see it, they could taste it. We could all taste it. It was absolutely a fabulous night except for those four very horrible minutes when Iran scored twice and it all just disappeared. That was just amazing, an amazing experience.

Amanda Smith: Now attempts to get soccer really established in this country as a leading spectator sport have met with so many difficulties and controversies over the years, Michael. Is it an ill-fated attempt?

Michael Cockerill: I hope not, because I've been in it too long to give up now. I mean it's a sport that starts behind the eightball. It wasn't an established sport in the early part of the century when the other codes were putting down very strong roots, it's always had to play catch-up since then. I would argue as well that it's had a lot of obstacles put in its way by the establishment, people who want to protect the vested interests, commercially and otherwise.

Amanda Smith: When you say that, do you mean from within the game or without the game?

Michael Cockerill: Well I was about to add, within the game it certainly hasn't helped itself. I mean there's no secret in the fact that soccer constantly shoots itself in the foot. But in other areas perhaps, it's got a few more obstacles than it should. I'm in media, I know how hard it is for soccer to get coverage in the mainstream media. And while I think I have a reasonable understanding of all the various responsibilities the media has, I also look at it and wonder sometimes why it doesn't get a better run, more of a focus from some of the mainstream media, that's just one example.

So it's all those sorts of things which don't help. It's got to do twice as much work as anyone else, or a lot of other sports I should say, to get the results.

Amanda Smith: How much of a dint has Australia's failure to make this year's World Cup put on the future of soccer in this country, given that fraught history anyway?

Michael Cockerill: It's just I guess the game here in Australia, which I'm involved with on a daily basis, suffers most. I mean the overseas players who were on the park that night can go back to Europe to their careers at club level and they can get well paid and they can play before big crowds and all the rest of it. But for all the people that I know here intimately, who are struggling to get ahead, who are trying to push the game forward, I know how much it meant to them and when I look around and I see them I realise that was the sort of cost that was involved, and it's difficult, and it doesn't get any easier. I mean it's now been 24 years since Australia made the World Cup, you're talking six campaigns which have ended in failure, and it doesn't get any easier. In fact it gets a lot harder every time.

Amanda Smith: Michael Cockerill. And although Australia isn't competing in France this year, there's still plenty of opportunity to develop World Cup fever anyway, if you want to.

Into the early hours of yesterday morning, Australians of Scottish and Brazilian backgrounds gathered to watch the first match of the series: the lowly-ranked Scotland up against the top team in the world, Brazil. And for those who were at Rio's Brazilian BBQ and Grill, in the Melbourne suburb of Richmond, this was their night.

CHEERS, DRUMS

Didi: It's the best feeling that you can have as a human being. If you really follow soccer you always will be waiting for this moment. It's four years that we have been waiting, since '94, to get here now, and we start everything again. It's the best feeling; if you ever follow sport, the best feeling you could have is to see a game. Just before the game your heart starts to even beat faster. Yes, it's fantastic.

CHEERS, DRUMS

Marco: I wish Australia was in. To understand the feeling of being in the World Cup. I know that in this country, soccer is getting there. And I believe year after year Australian soccer is getting better and better. We as Brazilians wish the best for Australia to be able to participate. And I'd like to tell Mr Hill, the president of soccer for the nation, please bring in a Brazilian coach, and I guarantee to him Australia will qualify for the next World Cup.

CHEERS, DRUMS

Simone: It's like a religion, you know we love soccer so much. This is sort of like the only happiness, and the only joy, and that's why it means a lot to us. You know, because Brazil's a third world country, and we've got a lot of problems: violence, corruption, hunger. In countries like America or Italy, France, Europe in general you know, it's not the same thing because they have comfortable situations more than us Brazilians. That's why it just means a lot to us you know, we just appreciate more. And the soccer players, they're like heroes to us. So the kids, they grow up on the streets playing soccer on the streets with no shoes, they're very poor, and they just learn on the streets, you know the hard way. And that's why soccer's not just a game, you know, it's the makers of art.

CHEERS

Amanda Smith: Meanwhile, just a few kilometres down the road, at the Windsor Castle Hotel, a small unit of the tartan army were enthusiastically hoping against hope that this might be their night.

CHEERS

Pauline: My name's Pauline Lindsay. I've been in Australia around a year-and-a-half; and yes, I'm out to have a good time tonight, to hopefully see Scotland win.

Amanda Smith: Now would you like to just describe for me what you're wearing?

Pauline: My face is painted with a Scottish flag on each cheek; I have a Scotland official Scotland '98 World Cup top on, and I have the Scottish flag wrapped round my legs.

SCOTLAND CHANT

Jamie: I'm Jamie Paton. I actually came to Australia to play football, and found it a wonderful country and decided to stay.

Amanda Smith: OK. Now it's the big first World Cup match tonight, Scotland and Brazil. It's a very hard draw for Scotland to have first up I would have thought?

Jamie: It is probably the best time to get Brazil. It's the very hardest team to get because they're No.1 in the world, but if you're going to get them, this is the time to get them. I would be most delighted if somebody could say 'Scotland, have a draw' before the game starts. If we start with a draw, if we finish with a draw, that would be fine.

CROWD: QUE SERA SERA

It's fairly pessimistic, but we're a pretty self deprecating race. In that we're used to almost getting there, and stumbling at the final hurdle. We've had many opportunities to go further and we've always managed to not do the business.

CROWD: QUE SERA SERA

Man: Three minutes to go, we've got three minutes yet. Come on, Scotland!

CROWD: CHEERS; FLOWER OF SCOTLAND

Amanda Smith: But despite all this patriotic singing, it wasn't to be Scotland's game. With the loyal fans at the Windsor Castle Hotel, in a word:

Man: Devastated, I have to say.

Woman: We were the underdogs. We came out fighting, we had a great match.

Man: We came out fighting and we went down fighting.

Woman: We went down fighting all the way. We were one-nil, we got up there one each; with an own goal we came down. But there they are defending a World Champion Cup and there we are, fighting the bit out, and I think we did brilliant, man.

WHISTLES

Amanda Smith: And that is Scotland being brave, I guess. And there's plenty more opportunity to stay up into the wee hours of the morning to watch World Cup matches, as they continue over the next five weeks or so.

I'm Amanda Smith. Hope you'll join me for The Sports Factor again next Friday.

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The Sports Factor can be heard on Radio National, 8.30am Fridays (Repeated Friday evenings at 8.30pm).