This is a Sport Australia podcast production.

Cam Tradell [00:00:04] This is a Sport Australia podcast production. Hello, and welcome to our coaching and officiating podcast series. My name is Cam Tradell and I'm the project lead for coaching officiating at Sport Australia. Over this series, we will look at what it takes to modernise Australia's coaching and officiating system. Each podcast, we will be joined by a special guest who will share experiences and practical tips on their topics.

Cam Tradell [00:00:35] Today, we are lucky enough to be joined by Brad McGee, a former Australian professional racing cyclist who has competed at four Olympic Games, as well as the coveted Tour de France. Bradley is an Olympic and Commonwealth champion across four Olympics. He has won one gold, one silver and three bronze medals. He's a five-time Commonwealth gold medalist and a member of the Sport Australia Hall of Fame. As a coach, he has been head coach of the New South Wales Institute of Sport from 2012 to 2020 and has also become the National Men's Road coach from 2013. Brad is passionate about enriching the Australian community through a strong international sporting presence. Brad, your résumé and experience speaks for itself, and we thank you for joining us tonight.

Brad McGee [00:01:22] Cam, my pleasure. I feel quite honored. I've listened to many of these and really appreciate them.

Cam Tradell [00:01:27] I really appreciate the support. You've had a career in cycling that sort of went to the heady heights, but it all started somewhere, and I'm really keen to understand where did it start? And do you remember when you fell in love with the sport, and do you remember who helped you?

Brad McGee [00:01:45] Oh, definitely. Memory lane is wonderful. It feels so long-ago Cam. It really does. Essentially, it all started at the Parramatta Cycling Club way back in the early 80s. Youngest of four boys. So, my oldest was doing a little bit of triathlon, wanted to be cycling, and so that meant we went off to the local cycling club, Parramatta Holroyd Cycling Club at the time. And it only transpired years later that my grandfather, who we're very close to my uncle, were big, big-time members of this club. But we knew nothing, nothing of this until years later. But I sort of fitted in with the what the feeling was when we went into this club. It felt like family almost immediately, just welcomed in. Everything was new and before you knew it, you know, my eldest brother and all the other brothers followed into the sport, and so did my father and my mum made a lot of sandwiches to feel it all really, but there was just a lovely club culture.

Cam Tradell [00:02:44] Do you remember your first coach and what they used to do to one either make you love the sport or question your love for the sport?

Brad McGee [00:02:51] Well, I need to put my old man John down as my first coach as he is, and I'll call it out. He might disagree with this one, but we're at Dubbo going to the Easter carnival. I went up there, didn't have a bike, but my brothers had all started the cycling thing. I was a soccer player Cam, loved it. And before you know it there's a competition for my age group. It must have been under 12s or under 10s or something and but didn't have a bike wasn't a problem because my brother Rod was in the race just before. So, the plan was that when he finished, I could jump straight on the bike, but things sort of turned around a little bit and technically I was a bit challenged because it meant that I was on the first race. My dad would stand about 50 meters after the finish line and catch me, we weren't allowed to do one lap wind down on this 400-metre flat track and my first coach, John my old man, is coaching with brilliant is like "Great race son. Get off" and here I am, going around in sneakers and stubby shorts and a hand-me-down Parramatta jersey with a number that basically wrapped around me twice. That was the start and that was punched on. It wasn't too long before I was coming through the ropes, and it was time to get a real coach early. And that was my dad making a decision because he couldn't keep up with me anymore at training. And so, coach John Beattie, dear old friend, God love him, rest in peace John. But JB was just a classic club coach, absolutely dedicated to the cause, and he was there to help anyone and then know as, he was there to help anyone in measured ways that were appropriate to that individual. So even as a 13, 14-year-old, I was allowed to go out in some of these rides, but there's no way I was allowed to have a training program. It was all measured and just, you know, just enough for you to keep getting better and no more. And so, my first program with JB wasn't until I was about 15 years of age, and there were probably three days of written training sessions on the program. A couple of free days, do what you want type thing. I love those days Cam, because I could go out and absolutely rip it to pieces. I wasn't, I didn't have to be so controlled. But again, J.B. and his measured appreciation of what each individual needed is what I like to think of. We talk about high performance. He was a high performing coach.

Cam Tradell [00:05:16] So he's servicing the motivation. So, could he tell the difference between someone who is motivated to go on and be the greatest rider they want to be? And then also, those other ones that, yeah, sure, they wanted to compete, but were never, ever going to ride for Australia. Could he differentiate between the two and sort of challenge them at different levels.

Brad McGee [00:05:34] Absolutely. That was the key. So, a lot of group riding and it wasn't just JB, if you had a Group ride as young kids, every one of your elders is like a coach looking at your peddle style, you know, your position on the bike, giving a little tips and feedback. And then JB could recognise and after reflecting back he could basically see the potential I had. He was training me towards bigger and better things where a lot of guys and girls in the club, they were happy to be club champions on the Saturday. I would have been too. I wasn't realising at the time, but he was training me for bigger things, constantly layering in that extra pressure, on the pedals, not pressure to win, but just always, you know, I just feel like every session was almost achievable if you just focused and put in. And there was a lot of there's a lot of lost lunches, sorry mum, some of those sandwiches went to waste. But I loved every minute of it. I was just challenged, suitably challenged right in that sweet spot.

Cam Tradell [00:06:30] Really interesting. You remember when it changed? Do you remember when you emerged on the stage and you actually started to set your eyes from not realising that you're just being challenged and getting there, to, actually, I think I can be good at this sport. Do you remember that little transition in your own mind?

Brad McGee [00:06:45] Oh, absolutely. I was beyond my miles. Very obvious. Essentially, I went through puberty quite late, like between 15 and 16, so it was between a state and a national championships that I went from an also ran kid that tried really hard and threw up off every race to a kid who tried really hard, threw up at every race and was winning them at a national level. It just come on in a flurry. And so, for me, I was just trying as hard as I could, whatever the challenge was in front of me. The only difference being now was, you know, with a bit of physicality that I was able to win by races. And that was like, oh, wow, this thing really works, you know? Suddenly, I wasn't thinking about being a soccer player anymore.

Cam Tradell [00:07:23] That's really interesting. So, you were coming in the middle of the pack, so to speak, but you've learnt the micro skills, you've learnt all the skills. So, when maturation took over, all of a sudden that's what elevated you to being an elite in the sport.

Brad McGee [00:07:37] Yeah, there was definitely no, I wasn't being lost and confused by any oh, you could win this, you win that idea at a young age, it was focused on your style and your breathing and aerodynamics. I'd come back from a race, and I remember announcing to my brothers and my old man, John, "I was spinning, dad I was spinning". You know, I must have just learnt that one the week before that spinning on the bike. That was a big, big sensation and win for that club race. And I guess that was the focus that John and the other members of the club were able to put on us. It was more around the technical skills and the acquisition and there were small wins all the way. The actual winning bike races, it was never the focus, it was so far from the focus. Yeah, sure, there was medals around and things like that, and that would be nice. There was a bit of prize money, maybe some flowers for mum, but it was the least thing on my mind up until actually I started winning and that almost came by surprise.

Cam Tradell [00:08:38] Incredible. And then you've got that next journey where it's not just winning the race, you're actually being the best in the world, you are sort of making that transition through that, which must be incremental. Now, other factors, other pressures start coming in. How did you navigate that and who helped you through that sort of transition phase?

Brad McGee [00:08:59] Yes, I guess that's when, you know, as a 16, 17-year-old, kind of knocking on the door of national team, the future national teams, this is a lot more people in the picture there. You go from your, your father, your brother's, club coach JB and a few other regulars at the club, to the junior Nationals coach Pete, there was a state coach Gary Sutton, there was national coach Charlie Walsh knocking on the door and wanting to have a conversation. And then, you know, there's a lot more influence. But for me that J.B. was there with me the whole way through and we, you know, I think he just installed in me just, you know, keep it simple, keep it specific, don't overdo it, was a big lesson. Kind of leave a little bit in the tank for tomorrow, and slow and steady was definitely the approach, and we were able to influence up with that. I remember my father specifically talking with Charlie Walsh, "don't burn him out, he doesn't need a lot". You know. And we were still quite fresh to the sport, we didn't know much about what was really needed, but we knew what was needed for myself. And so, I guess just maybe out of naivety, we were able to influence those other coaches that you start to be introduced to.

Cam Tradell [00:10:14] It's amazing, isn't it? The journey seems seamless. It seems accelerated through the fact that it wasn't actually winning and being the world champion. It was all actually driven by a love of the environment that the sport created for you.

Brad McGee [00:10:30] Oh, absolutely. And I just loved going fast on my bike, and I was absolutely obsessed with the processes around that. You know, the winning bit was almost symptomatic, I guess. You know, "oh yeah. and I won". But the self-assessment, even on a win where I could have gone a little bit faster? Could of I held my head down? Well, if I didn't push the heart rate up quite so early, I wouldn't have vomited before the finish line, I would have got an extra couple of seconds. Yeah, things like that. Really just, you know, just fascinated by all of those processes. The winning became nice, but it was a value add, I guess. I think I was just fortunate Cam that I didn't have that physical presence at a really young age. The winning part and the complexities that winning brings was kept from me for a number of years, I got those early years of development, coupled with JB's approach. I was just very fortunate. It's a difficult thing to sidestep. I know I've had young kids come through sports and how do you distance the win lose effects and focus on those early processes and celebrating those? It's really tough, tough measure. Again, it takes a high-performing coach at that level. I was completely committed and capable of the coaching and measured doses for appropriate ages and skill levels.

Cam Tradell [00:11:51] You've now done the full loop because now you're back coaching other people. How much of your coaching method is built from the experience of everything that happened to you and then you brought to life? And how much of it is yourself? How much of it do you bring out? And what are some of the philosophies you use in your coaching?

Brad McGee [00:12:09] Oh, definitely. If you talk about philosophies of carrying that, don't try to do it all today. You know, training, if you like what you're after, is that adaptation and adaptation just needs a measured dose of stimulus and recovery. And you've got to think in your cycles, you know, your micro to your macro cycles, but just enough to get that adaptation is what you're after and that takes some practice. But it's something I've really grown and formed into my coaching philosophy now and I'm early days in that coach development space now, and I'm intrigued by how many of our amazing coaches take on this as well. It's definitely present and we talk about success, but we talk about sustained success. This is why it’s heavily linked, going from a high performer to like a recidivist a high performer, that's what we're after, were trying to achieve mastery here. That's not just from a pop-up flash in the pan result, that's from years, if not a decade of continued success at the top end. So that measured dose is something I've really grown since working with JB all the way back in the early 80s, and I think some of the great coaches I've been exposed over years. Just had that in, you know, in your Gary Sutton's or, your Macca McKenzie's, they knew that that was super crucial and you're not really holding the athlete back, you’re just enabling the athlete to have an autonomous element into how much they actually do. It's not, I've got too, oh I get too. It’s a change in mindset but has a completely different result in the adaptation space.

Cam Tradell [00:13:48] I really like that intrinsic motivation to be there is that I'm doing it because I want to be here rather than it's a Tuesday and I have to go. You're right. It's a nuance, but it's a big one.

Brad McGee [00:13:58] Absolutely. It's just leaving that little bit out for the athlete to springboard off, I like to think of it. They take that leap of faith in knowing that there's support around and then they'd be maybe more than willing to push down on that springboard, which is the platform that you've built as the coach, and they'll jump into the darkness knowing that you're there to catch them on the other end. I look back to what would that look like in my days as an athlete? As a twenty-one-year-old under the Charlie Walsh regime, was a eleven months program given to you in a folder about that thick, and at every breakfast, lunch and dinner and training session for the next 11 months, fell out. And I took that on board, and said yep, but me being that egotistical little kid that I was, I was like, I'll do all that and I'll do mine as well. So, I'll put a few extra sessions in there and look on the Australian record as it was and things like that. I was nuts. But that was how much I believed in me that I needed to have, that I needed to have my own imprint on what I was doing.

Cam Tradell [00:14:57] To have your ownership to what you're doing and then see the value and I guess, allow your athlete to make some mistakes to learn from. To understand where the guidance comes from, how important do you think that is?

Brad McGee [00:15:08] What does it look like today, you know I’ve worked through the, you know, the professional ranks there with guys like your Richard Ports and your Michael Matthews and you know, Alberto Contador’s and in recent years before, you know what I'm doing now with the Australian women's team, the Amanda Spratts or Chloe Hosking, what they look like today? It's these athletes having their own confidence, their own circle of trust, their own support network, no matter what team or structure they're with. And I think these are key elements to enabling that athlete to have the feeling that they've got that autonomy in really dictating their career and their performances. I think once you get up into the big game, it grows beyond just you. You need that close circle of trusting supporters around you and that can be anyone. It could be more technical support side of things that could be just emotional. You know, there's many different shapes that that takes, but it's part of that autonomy that we need to bring in and enable in our athletes. And I've seen it time and time again in our top performers and how important that is.

Cam Tradell [00:16:21] Those interpersonal relationships become key. Sometimes an athlete or I mean, even at the club level, doesn't want to tell the coach something, but might tell the strapper something.

Brad McGee [00:16:31] I believe our coaches need their own small, I call it small because I think beyond two or three is probably starting to get a little bit to unravel a little bit. But having you know, your own team of confidants. It is a critical friend, mentor, coach, whatever you want to call it. Having your people, that you know that you can rely on no matter what organisation or jersey or colour you're sporting.

Cam Tradell [00:16:57] Do you feel that's important at all levels of coaching, knowing that they have other pressures? They got work. They've got other things. Do you see that as being a key component to coaching at all levels?

Brad McGee [00:17:06] Well, what it relates to I think, i think back to JB. Yeah, he was more than happy to hand over, if you like in star athlete to Gary Sutton or a Peter Day, knowing that you know he's impact, his time was done. You know, he's forever in my heart. I'm forever thankful to him and his family. But you know, the actual coaching space was probably only about two years, but I actually worked intently, with JB and then it was time to hand over in transition. And that at the time, reflecting back was an amazing feat. You know, it was at a time where coaches held on to their athletes, coaches held on to their knowledge. What we now recognise, you know, sharing knowledge is more powerful than holding knowledge, being able to transition athletes and being an active participant or be it at a lessening intensity, I guess as we transition our athlete through, we know that's important. You look at what our swimming teams just done in Tokyo and in getting that transition piece, right. It's absolutely key in performance. But JB back in the 80s, you know? He had that. I don't know where it came from, but he had that and that was. Imagine if they try to hold on to his young charge for an extra year or two and I faulted and didn't make that state team, didn't make this national team. Maybe the soccer pathway might have had to be put back on the agenda Cam, I'm not sure, I wouldn't have lasted longer. Both legs mate, I was going nowhere.

Cam Tradell [00:18:35] It's incredible because I think those communities of practice at all levels and you're right, the critical friend, the person, the mentor, the one to speak about other aspects of your life. But what's going right in this session? Because the external view to what's happening when, again, the old saying You're too close to the woods, the sea, the trees, sometimes they hear the conversation. What did I say then? What was the action? What was the reaction? And to have those people to provide that insight? That's key to learning and growing.

Brad McGee [00:19:06] And the beauty is, you know, Australian sports get so many opportunities of experience opportunities to reflect through and grow from. Now, I don't believe we have to create too many more learning experiences, reflect through them with your trusted team, personal team, and that's the growth and development, or a big part of it. It's, you know, and we can even go back in time and reflect through past experiences. But you've got to build up those trusting relationships for that to be effective.

Cam Tradell [00:19:35] Look, Brad, we've got some incredible insight today and agree 100 per cent. That's it sounds like your journey from the first time you've got on the bike to all the heady heights to now re-engaging back in the sport, you can still hear it. The passion for your sport through that experience that you lived through is clear. It's evident that this has impacted heavily on your life. Thanks so much for your time this afternoon.

Cam Tradell [00:20:06] Thank you for joining me today. If you'd like to find out more about coaching and officiating or have any feedback or questions, please email us at Workforce@sportaus.gov.au. My name is Cam Tradell and I look forward to you joining me for the next podcast in the coaching officiating series.