Will Vickery [00:00:08] Hello and welcome to our Coaching and Officiating podcast series. My name is Wil Vickery and I'm one of the Senior Coaching Advisors at the Australian Sports Commission. Today I'm on the lands of the Wadawurrung people and along with some special guests, I'm here to talk about some of the important topics that exist within community coaching.
Today we're going to try and navigate how a coach survives the first few weeks of coaching. This week, I'm joined by the Director of Coaching and Officiating at the Australian Sports Commission, Cameron Tradell. And I'm also joined by Zoe Crosland who’s the Coach of the under-five Warnbro Strikers soccer team in WA. Thank you both for joining me.
Now just to set the scene a little for today's discussion, I'm actually quite curious to know a little more about each of your coaching backgrounds. So Zoe, would you mind kind of giving our listeners a little bit of an idea of just who it is you coach and where?
Zoe Crosland [00:01:07] I actually got asked by an old soccer friend of mine to come along to Warnbro Strikers Soccer Club and teach the under-fives. So that role was actually new to me this year. It's my first time kind of stepping into a soccer coaching role. For me it was, I didn't know what to expect, so I kind of walked in very blind. But as a career, I am a fitness coach with Fit Stop Waikiki, so I have a coaching background when it comes to fitness. So, yeah, that's kind of how I got involved with, yeah, starting to coach soccer.
Will Vickery [00:01:45] Yeah. And from that, I take it you've never had the pleasure of coaching small children before, in this sort of capacity?
Zoe Crosland [00:01:54] No, never. I have a five-year-old daughter, so, I knew, I guess, what to expect from my daughter, but you add, I guess, 20 more little five-year-olds to a group, and, yeah, it became very challenging. But it's something that I love doing, I enjoy all our training sessions and our games. It definitely took me a couple weeks to get into the hang of things and to kind of, I guess, know where to start with the under-fives. As a lot of them came in with no concept of ever playing a team sport, how to kick a ball, how to share a ball. So, we literally had to strip it back to basics from week one.
Will Vickery [00:02:34] Cam, maybe. Do you want to share your coaching background with us as well?
Cam Tradell [00:02:37] Okay. I've been lucky enough to coach at all different levels, multiple sports, over the years. I started the, coaching rugby union as a, as a young fellow as I was playing. And then, we were sort of, volunteered to, to be, the junior rugby union coach. But yeah, over the past probably 14 years, sorry, 40 years. I wish I was 14, the past 40 years, I've coached at all different levels, across, as I say, multiple sports through rugby, soccer, martial arts, cricket, coached here in Australia, coached juniors. So completely empathise with the the five-year-old scenario, but all the way up to adults.
Will Vickery [00:03:26] Zoe early on, I mean, obviously it's very early days. How how long technically have you been coaching at the moment?
Zoe Crosland [00:03:32] Yeah. So, we've come up to work at around five now. And then we've probably had about five weeks pre-season, so I'd say about ten, 11 weeks.
Will Vickery [00:03:39] I mean, you talked about the fact that, your daughter plays and I assume that was one of the big drivers as to why you got involved. Is there anything in particular besides that sort of thing that kind of influenced you in your coaching, or has influenced you at the moment in your coaching?
Zoe Crosland [00:03:54] I've always kind of had a bit of a leadership role to myself. I've always been willing to help. I guess wanting to make a difference in other people's lives. And having that impact and then also others. I've always wanted to kind of share my knowledge through a sport that I grew up loving so much as a kid. And I've got a number of coaches that I still value so much to this day that I learned so much from. And I guess for me, it was a part of, I guess, giving back to that community and sharing knowledge that I got as a kid. I think after the Women's World Cup, my daughter had a massive love for soccer and I just thought that it was a great opportunity, I guess, through my daughter and through my knowledge, to give to the community and share with these little kids and I guess be that first coach and that first impression for them joining soccer. So yeah, for me it was just to, I guess, give and to share, you know, my love for a sport and help these little kids learn. So, it's definitely challenging. And some weeks we have such an amazing time at training. And then other times I come home and I just have the biggest headache because it's just been chaotic. But, you know, to see the kids just having the best time and growing week by week is just, you know, it just it's great. Like, I love I love what I do and I love being a part of it.
Will Vickery [00:05:21] Yeah, awesome. Is there anyone in particular that kind of stands out in terms of you say you kind of have a lot of really good role models that you've had in the past, is there anyone that stands out?
Zoe Crosland [00:05:29] Yeah, there is. So, I played soccer through thank you base in high school. So they had a soccer program there. So, I actually got into that through a, scholarship in year eight. And my coach was Jessine Bonzas So, she impacted my life massively, through high school. And she wasn't just a soccer coach for me. I think she kept me accountable through school. Unfortunately, I had, my sister, who was a twin, got quite sick through high school. And Jessine Bonzas was just there for me constantly to keep me on the right track. And soccer, literally for me, kept me through, you know, that whole process and I guess, you know, was something that I could, I guess, used as an outlet for my emotions and really delve into, I think without Jessine Bonzas and soccer growing up, I think who I would be as a person today would be completely different. And I just value what I had with her so much that I guess for me, I want to be able to impact other kids lives like that, you know? And I'm not just a soccer coach who is there to teach soccer skills. I'm obviously there as well as someone that can guide these kids in the right direction. I guess, you know, be a bit of a role model for someone to talk to, someone to relate to. So. I valued that as a kid, and I guess that's also helped me as well, wanting to get into coaching and be that different so, you know, help people be better each day, even if they're, you know, they're five or, you know, even through a coaching position at the gym, you know, like, I work with lots of people going through different parts of life. And to be a part of that is just amazing.
Will Vickery [00:07:12] Yeah, I mean, that's fantastic. That's awesome. The fact that you've had such an influential person in your life, but particularly someone who's like, still being heavily involved in your sporting career, like I that's, not an awful lot of people, I guess, have that opportunity, but it sounds like they really influenced I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but they've really influenced the way that you approach your coaching at the moment. Would that be right?
Zoe Crosland [00:07:34] Oh, it does massively. And I still have contact with the Jessine Bonzas now. And, she was one of the first people to, I guess, praise me. And, you know, give me a pat on the back for doing what I'm doing now and getting involved. And, I think from day one, she's always believed in me. And, you know, seeing the talent that I can provide. And, I really gained, like, a long-term friendship through my coach. So. Yeah, it's been it's been really good. So hopefully I can continue that and be that to other people. And yeah.
Cam Tradell [00:08:09] I really like the stories Zoe was telling before and I find it that's what really sparked my, my, my memories is the fact that she was talking about the coach that really invigorated her to be a coach. And and I love that story, is that that's the positive impact. We didn't hear anything about winning. We didn't hear anything about, that I was going to be the, you know, the next big thing. We heard that there was a relationship there and a trust of, that was gained through sport and that at that, was a really appropriate, supportive environment where it was the opposite for me with regards to it was the players that actually, I saw that same value in is that I think I can be better here. And these people make me better. And, I and seeing me go from, not thinking I’m making an impact to, to genuinely, authentically feeling like I'm making a positive difference or an impact.
Will Vickery [00:09:09] Thank you both for sharing your stories and your backgrounds. Hopefully that's a little bit of context for those listening about who my guests are and what their coaching experiences are. I want to start off, though, with, what it's like to actually coach during those first few weeks or sessions for anyone who's had the pleasure, myself included, of of beginning their coaching journey. Most of us, I guess, would agree that those those first few times are often a mixture of chaos, nervous energy, and the unknown, but also a lot of excitement and positivity. I'd really love to know your story Zoe about your first session.
Zoe Crosland [00:09:43] Yeah, like you said, I think I had massive mixed emotions. I think within like the two week build up. And then the being asked by Tony if I wanted to, you know, coach under-fives. And I think that was a massive wave of excitement. And I was so excited. And then honestly, after that first training session, I walked away very overwhelmed, wondering what I got myself into. Had I bitten off more than I could chew? I think I came home and had a wine, and I think I processed that training session for the I think the next couple of days. For me, I guess I very underestimated, I guess a five-year-old debility, coming from such a high level and I guess finishing my training at such a high level, I guess I kind of went in with that mindset of, you know, these kids will know how to kick a ball, pass a ball, share a ball, you know. And I think I planned out all these drills to do in week one. And within five minutes I think I just canned everything that I had planned to do, you know. And I think the first couple of weeks, it was more about building that rapport. You know, getting kids just comfortable with me and being around other kids. We played duck, duck, goose, we played, you know, tepees. And, you know, like we literally stripped it back to basics, played games about learning each other's name. You know, how we share, you know, and even just listening to a whistle, you know, and, staying in a boundary, you know, like, I really had to strip it back for the first couple of weeks and I guess lower my expectations of what I was going to get out of these kids. And, and for me, I had kids kind of leaving the session midway through and not wanting to come back in. And I think for me, it was just completely understanding that this is the first time some of these kids have ever interacted in a team sport, and it's okay for them to take it slow. And, you know, watch from the sideline if that's what they needed. And, just really getting to know kids as individuals and letting them take it as quick or slow as they needed to. And it was just all about fun for the first couple of the first couple of weeks was just about fun, to be honest, and just get getting everyone comfortable with each other. So, I guess, yeah, it wasn't about, I guess, soccer itself. It was about building that rapport and that relationship with all the kids individually.
Will Vickery [00:12:18] I'm curious, did you like, how meticulous were any session plans or anything that you had like that?
Zoe Crosland [00:12:24] I did my research. I was a little bit. I think at one point overwhelmed with where to find resources, and what to do with kids that age. I think after that first couple of weeks of that, you know. Stripping it right back. It was for me,I was a little bit confused on where to start. And I just remember talking to some other friends and some other, you know, resources and old coaches, and I literally just said, you know, it's about having fun and literally starting from the basics and learning those social skills, how to be comfortable in that environment. So, each week I did kind of, I guess, do some research and come up with some new drills. But you've got to kind of think quick on your feet. And if it's not working, you've got to be really quick to adapt your training and I guess find something else that's going to work for your group on that day.
Will Vickery [00:13:20] What does the playing environment actually look like over there? And I guess in the sense of what happens on the weekend games where you are coaching.
Zoe Crosland [00:13:27] Even with our games, we kind of split our group into small groups of 5 or 6. And it's a bit more of like a round robin kind of thing. They play 15 minute little games. All our local little under-five teams come to the same venue. And we kind of all just rotate and play one another. For scoring and stuff, it's not really about goals or, you know, who who won? Who lost. I guess it's just about getting these kids out on a Sunday and, you know, getting them to play a sport that they love and we're all there for the same reason. And, you know, I think these days, I don't know for my daughter as well, you know, she comes home after school and sits on her iPad. So it's just nice to see these kids moving away from technology and, you know, spending the Thursday afternoon and the Sunday mornings, like out in the sunshine and, you know, learning new social skills. And I've got two little boys that's still are five. And it's all about winning, you know. So even at training we don't count goals, it's not about winning, it's about having fun. You know like yeah. So it's I guess getting rid of that competitive side of it so young. And it's just about having fun, you know, and enjoying each other's company. And yeah like Sunday's are pretty mayhem but it's great. Like, I love it. I wouldn't change it. Like, I wouldn't spend my Sunday morning any other way. Like, I love it. I look forward to Sundays and yeah, seeing on my team and watching them play a sport that meant so much to me growing up. Like it's it's great.
Will Vickery [00:14:56] Based on your experience as a coach Cam, but also in your role in developing coaches as well, other things that stand out to you or you've noticed about those first few sessions and the coaches themselves.
Cam Tradell [00:15:07] Zoe’s really touched on some great points. And and that social aspect is key. And, you know, the coaches are doing a great job, have already built that that social connection amongst the five year old side, that it actually gives you a little bit of time and a little bit of breathing space when the kids are actually socialising and working well together and not doing their own thing as much. When they're doing their own thing, you end up, as you said before, herding cats because you haven't built that social connection and the ability for them to just love being around each other, when they love being around each other about tend to stick together better in groups, they'll tend to, with one person, one of the kids, has a concept the others will follow. So, you create these environments. So Zoe talking about that before is it's a really big one is creating the social and psychological safety where people feel like they immediately belong. They’re the sessions that, you know, for this age group, especially that you know, that they're doing a great job in in creating that. The other ones, you tend to find that and you can sort of reflect, right. I know I certainly can is that when you're getting it wrong, you'll tend to find that you're yelling a lot more and you're yelling in what I call the compass. You're yelling to the north, the south, the east, and the west, because you've got everyone going everywhere and you're yelling rather than, hold on, how have I created the environment where they all want to be somewhere around the north. And they're all sort of, aggregating together. So I'd say that for me, that's one of the drivers, of, you know, how do you recognise when your session is going well. I think the other point that Zoe brought up again is, is a critical one is that, we can't confuse competing with competition. They're competing every second of every single moment. They're out there competing in soccer. A win for them is getting their foot on the ball. How many kicks do I get with the ball? And then when I don't have the ball, it's how close can I be to the ball to get my next kick on the ball? And that's okay. And but it's really an adult construct of, scoring a goal means that we've won. And we introduced that really early, is that we've got to replicate the big game. And, you know, we've got to replicate what it looks like at the top and the ones that can sort of steer away from that and celebrate the little wins. They also create those environments and they have the big wins where you say how many times you get to touch the ball, and then they say ten versus how many times you to score a goal. Well, I didn't I didn't score a goal today. No, and at the top in soccer, it's a reality that some games in 90 minutes nil all, has no one had a good experience? Is, that it's been terrible. And that's not the case. So, there's different ways that you can set success measures. And I think that's one of the the key piece is that not just setting those success measures as a coach. Also communicating out to parents and, you know, people who are interested onlookers that this is a journey and and they're not playing for Australia yet. They might never play for Australia. And here's the thing, the best way that we can or the best where we can do a job with these kids is to create this amazing environment for them to come down and learn, which is why I love what Zoe said is that she's really going in there, overwhelmed week one. You're not alone there. I think everyone's overwhelmed. Doesn't matter how experienced you are. Yeah, you get that feeling when you walk out of week one. But understanding that if you can assess these kids as individuals on where they're at physically, then how they can interact socially, and then start to look on, how do I create this environment that's suitable for them? The truth is, you'll have a heck of a lot more success than if you've got a preconceived idea of what your entire season is going to look like before you even get out in the field.
Will Vickery [00:19:00] Yeah, it screams modern participant in the way that, yeah, everyone needs to be aware of who's in front of them. Why are they there? This is no longer just a case of we're showing up to train regardless, and it's very much around let's actually make this a very enjoyable experience. Regardless of whether they are under-fives or playing for the elite level, like it's end of the day, if you're a coach and you're not looking at that as one of the very first things, with regards to setting up your environment. I wouldn't say you'd be doing it wrong, but you're probably setting yourself up to fail, really, and and fail in a sense that you're not going to have success with the participants in the way that they perceive that they are having success and whether they feel competent in what they're doing and things like that.
Cam Tradell [00:19:47] This is where the perception of, I need to be, at an elite level of a game or a sport, or I need to play the sport to be a good under coach. And the truth is, it's not the case at all. And this is where we want new people stepping in. We want, a new breed of of coaches coming in and saying, you know what? I think I can do the job. And it may not just be me by myself, it might be me and five others that come in and sort of start to run this. And, I've got great skills in group management, so I can I can actually manage the groups, but I don't really know some of the drills. But we've got a friend over here who can do that. I've got this friend over here who can do that. And we can start to create a different we just because we've always done it one way doesn't mean we have to continue to do it that same way. Different people have got different skills and it's daunting. It's really daunting, but it's daunting for Zoe to step over the fence and she knows the sport. It's daunting for me to step over and I know you know, some sports. It's no more daunting for for anyone else than if you don't know the sport. You're coming in with no preconceived ideas.
Will Vickery [00:20:55] Yeah, I mean, on that point, Zoe I was really kind of keen to explore what it was. That was what it was like during that first few weeks or even the first training session. Like, is there anything that that you found that really helped with kind of getting over that bit of, well, I see anxiety, but like that unknown feeling, the the overwhelming feeling that you had after that first session, is there anything you did that, yeah, that really helped with that?
Zoe Crosland [00:21:22] For me, like Cam was saying, you know, like I've come from a, I guess, you know, like a high level of training and knowing the sport I guess doesn't make any difference to these kids. You know, for me, I, I think by week two I had to kind of guess, take a step back and say, you know, what was going to get me through these sessions? And how did I, I guess, make the load easier on myself, you know, like it was me against 16 small children that, you know, had the shortest attention span, you know, kind of checked out before I even finished explaining the drill and, you know, running in all these different directions. So it was kind of like, how do I approach this in a way that's going to get me through it, that safe for these kids and I guess going to keep them on track. And for me, it was definitely getting parents involved, you know, and, seeking help and that helps okay. You know, and asking parents to step in. And even if that's, you know, standing along the cones and, you know, keeping these kids within the boundary or, you know, going and collecting the balls that go astray so that I don't have 16 kids, all go chase one stray ball. Like, you know, it was just getting comfortable with my parents and getting them on board in training sessions and even in games, you know, like just getting my parents to just be helpers within the small game. So then that allowed me to have a bit more freedom to kind of flow through the sessions. And I guess for me, see where kids were at and what strength or focuses I needed to bring in to training next week. And, you know, I think for week one, it was like, okay, yeah, I know what I'm doing. I know how to kick. Well, I've got experience in this. I don't need the help. But really realistically, I needed the help. I had 16 little mini kids that at some point I didn't have any control over. So, for me, it was just definitely using the parents and getting people on board and being comfortable with that. And I guess giving them a bit of free range on what were they seeing from the sidelines or where did they think that, you know, I needed to focus more on training sessions. And the minute I brought in helping, getting parents to help, sorry was just a godsend. Like it just made such a difference to my training and, allowed me to split my group into smaller groups and, like, really focus on other areas of training.
Will Vickery [00:23:42] Did you have any initial like resistance, or was there any kind of trouble recruiting or convincing the parents to, to get involved? Was there anything like that.
Zoe Crosland [00:23:50] A little bit. I think a lot of parents, I guess I they wanted to drop their kids off and then just sit in the car and I guess have that hour of not away from their children. But that expectation of like, hey, I've got my kid at soccer and I'm not going to be involved. And I guess reassuring parents as well that we are stripping right back to basics. And, you know, from my daughter's view of it, you know, she loves it. Her mom's involved in soccer and that her mom is a part of her training. And, you know, like, some of it actually kind of got the kids more involved when their mom or dad were in there with them, you know, and watching them kick a ball for the first time or, you know, dribbling the ball into the goal like they just got such, you know, this achievement and then turning around and seeing their parents be involved in it.
Will Vickery [00:24:38] Is there anything in particular that you did to to get them involved? Like anything like I say advice, but just in case people are actually having a bit of trouble making that reality, is there anything that you did that really worked?
Zoe Crosland [00:24:50] I came very open with my communication. I ended up opening a WhatsApp group with my under-fives, and getting all my parents into that chat, and just really communicating. And I guess setting those expectations. And planning ahead before training. Like, I reached out two days before and I just said, look, guys, you know, can I please have 3 or 4 parents involved in our training session this week? Like, these are the focuses that I'm wanting to do. And I guess just there was no pressure. And I've really reassured that you don't have to know the sport to be able to help out. You know, like a lot of these parents, they did like I said, can I have help please and was like, oh my God, I don't know what I'm doing. I know nothing about soccer. And, you know, like Cam said before, you don't have to know the sport to be able to get in there and help these children. And it was just reassuring them that we're here for fun, you know, and we're all here to support each other, and we're all in that journey together. And it's that saying, you know, it takes a village to raise a child. You know, I guess it's the same when it comes to sports. And I guess the more involved parents are, the easier it is for everyone, you know. And coming up to week ten now, like I've got some amazing parents that really step in and I honestly only have to say once like, hey guys, is there anyone that would like to step up and help me this week? And I have hands going up, you know, everywhere, and we've kind of got a bit more of a routine now. And who's bringing the oranges, who's washing the kids. You know, like, you know.
Will Vickery [00:26:24] It’s such a positive story.
Cam Tradell [00:26:26] Ways to do something really similar in that I had the same challenge way back when, where it was hard to get the parents out of the car because that was their latte time, in the afternoon. So they, they figured they drop their child off to sport. And we started doing a, we started doing a little bit of a warm-up where we'd have two levels of skill. One that was a really easy one for the kids to achieve, and they could play with their parents. But the skill was different for the parent and they had to work at a different skill. An example of that is we used like, tennis balls, soft balls. And we used to say to the kids, pick up the cone and catch the ball inside the cone. And so the parent would throw the ball to the kid, and the kid would catch the ball inside the cone. And the kids are having heaps of wins and heaps of fun, and they're really enjoying that interaction, that time that they working with their parents. But then we turn the cone upside down and give it to the parents who say, now you've got to catch the ball on top of that, on top of the cone. And all of a sudden there was this competitiveness in the parents working with their kids that they were also engaged and they're on the hook as well. So it started off as just a bit of fun. It was 5 or 10 minutes before we started training, but the truth is, it ended up being half an hour before every training session. And they wanted a new game every week. So they come up with a new multi-layered skill. For parents and kids to participate together was difficult, at first, but then we found exactly what you found Zoe once they become invested, they think coming, they start coming up with the well, what ifs, and and they start building the excitement themselves. And so watching that unfold with parents playing with their kids, for starters, is amazing because then the parents get first-hand experience of their growth. They're part of that journey. So they feel connected. And then, as you say, when you need to pull on support or help, they're willing to do so because you've created the environment where, hold on, so this is this is training. You know, we we've already done a little bit at the beginning I can help it's easy. So I really like the way that you've engaged, engage them because it's the it's the critical piece. We all get left out there by ourselves a lot of the time. And that's that's a tough gig.
Will Vickery [00:28:49] One thing that coaches might find challenging, particularly in those first few sessions, is how to adapt the session for different abilities, personalities, etc., particularly in those team sport settings. So if you had any experience in this yet, have you had to adapt to anything.
Zoe Crosland [00:29:05] It is and even like within my little group of kids, you know, like I had three that had played Auskick the season before and they'd been a part of that team sport. And then I had kids that had absolutely no concept of a team sport, had never really kicked the ball. Nothing. You know, so I guess it was adapting the sessions to everyone, you know, and you, like you said. You want the kids to take something positive away from their training sessions, and that's going to look different for every single child involved. And then like recently, I've actually just got a little boy who's come in and he's autistic, non-verbal. You know, so his training sessions going to be completely different to everyone else's. And my approach to him needs to be very different. You know, the first time he came on, you know, I said, hey, how are you? And he went, no!. You know, and literally shut me out. So it was learning, I guess, how to approach this child with different needs. You know, and I think as a coach, you've really got to be on your feet and willing to adapt what you need, I guess, to get through to all different types of kids at different levels.
Will Vickery [00:30:16] Yeah, it raises a really good point as well, Zoe, about what a new coach needs or how they can be supported to to help their own development. Is there anything that that would help support you think new coaches such as yourself?
Zoe Crosland [00:30:28] I think for me, like if I could I guess give someone some advice. It's just. You know. Come in open arms, you know, like had that bit of a loving, caring, you know, background. And I think you do also need to be in it for the right reasons. Otherwise why would we be doing this? You know, like, and I think you've just got to be very understanding, that it's not always going to, you know, be about winning. And we're not always going to be moving forward and say, improvement. Some weeks it are massive setbacks. And I guess just being open minded and just willing, willing to grow yourself as a coach and being open to other people's advice and opinions and, you know, seeking those resources or, you know, being adaptive to the things that you need. Like as coaches, we're in a coaching position, but there's always more to learn. You know, as a coach. And I really strive of learning about the people, you know, I'll go out of my way and I'll go and watch other coaches training sessions, you know, because that's going to. Like I said before, there's so many different ways to coach, so many different ways to teach, you know, and I think every coach can bring something different to a team, you know? So, just being open to that. And for me, like, as a mother, I know what I want out of a coach when my daughter goes to a training session and I want her to feel loved, I want her to be supported. I want her to be able to talk to her coach. You know? So for me, knowing that of what my expectations are for my daughter, like I hold that to everyone else's children too, you know, and. I want all kids to have a good rapport with me and be able to love me and trust me, you know? And I, you know, a lot of kids now come running to try and give me a massive hug, you know? And I ask them how their day's been at school. And it's not just about soccer. It's, you know, taking the time to know how these kids days of being what they do on the weekend, you know, and listening to their stories and giving them that time to talk to. And that's important, you know, like to be heard as a little kid, too. I think it's massive and if we talk about, you know, their new toy that they bought on the weekend, then that's okay. You know like that's important to them. So being able to listen and you know, let them kind of just have their moment. And yeah.
Will Vickery [00:32:53] Cam is there anything you might add given your experience.
Cam Tradell [00:32:56] Yeah. Look Zoe’s touched on all of them. In fact, they asked me to basically be a spokesperson, she’s, I think I think understanding the expectations. So coming into coaching, if you think that you need to be, as I said before, if you need to pay a player that's got extensive knowledge of the sport, and then you've got your expectations set out in front of you, the truth is, more times than not, you'll either fail, or you'll be frustrated, during the whole thing. So I think putting those expectations behind you, is, is really important. I think understanding, that, and it's not an easy job. So expectations with regards to how you going to how this is going to look. If you come in thinking if I speak they’ll all stop and listen. Set your expectations early is that's actually not the case. And if we look at the way that, again, Zoe set herself up, is that. It's it is interesting at all different levels of coaching. If a high performance coach, is, under scrutiny or something like, you know, we see their interview on TV after a game and they become the focus of all of the the issue or the problem. We always look at them as being the head coach, but what we don't talk about is the fact that they've got 10 to 15 coaches that actually will help, and they've got strength and conditioning coaches, they've got all the other support staff around them. And they’re just the head coach, so to speak. But if we go down to the community level under-fives, it usually is just one coach and a lot of the times it's one coach and is good enough to step forward, or is too slow to step backwards when someone's asked to step forward. And if that's the case, understanding that coaching is about it’s quite diverse. It's quite broad. So having the, the the ,having the confidence to step up and ask for help early, which again, Zoe spoke of so well, I think that's a really important thing is I'll do the coaching, but I actually don't know about soccer. And then grabbing onto some soccer experience to say, right, so let's set the expectations here. These are kids so they’re gunna, be learning and you can almost pull a group together. And I think the other piece, would be your communication. And again Zoe spoke of that is set the expectations with the groups, the parental groups around you to say this is what we can expect to see. We're keen for your kids to have, an amazing experience while here. They won't be playing for the Matildas, or the Socceroos next week. That's the truth. They won't be. But if we can give them an amazing year where they love sport, and they stay in sport, not just the sport we're in now, but another sport, and they have the confidence to grow through sport that that those opportunities for them to get those, you know, lifelong attachments and, and relationships with activity and sport will come. And the truth is when would you feel the greatest, feeling of appreciation or your intrinsic motivation? Where does it come from? And if you've had the the 16 kids running mayhem and it being an absolute nightmare for you they’re the days that Zoe was talking about where you go home and you go, what have I done here? But I'll tell you what, the flip side to that is incredible. The days that you're there with smiling kids, happy parents, people really engaged, not wanting to go home because you put on an amazing time and experience. You feel amazing, you feel great, and you've got heaps of support. I'm telling you, you go home and it adds to your life. It adds another, and another piece to life that, one all your days all the problems that you've had during your day seem to dissipate when you can have this experience. So, I would say that that would be, the key pieces. I'd also say to your point, before Will is, turn up on their terms. So, if you've had a bad day at work, you don't need to bring that to this environment. And I'm telling you now, set yourself up for success. If you bring that bad day to that environment, you just going to make your day a lot worse. Turn up for them and look on this as your time to disconnect from other areas and really be there in the moment and focus on what you're doing because it's yes, it's it's not easy. No one saying it's simple. But I'll tell you what, it's rewarding, if you get it right, not just for you, but someone will be telling that story that Zoe told before about the impact that that coach made in her life. Someone will be telling that story about you in years to come if you get this environment right.
Will Vickery [00:37:56] We've talked a lot about the positives that come with coaching. We talked a lot about the ways that we can get over some barriers and things like that when it comes to the first few weeks. And Zoe I'm really keen because obviously this is still relatively recently year for you. Is there anything that you wish you had, whether it is more support, whether it's like more access to resources, things like that, is there anything you would love to have had more of, leading into and currently with kind of this experience you've got at the moment that would really help in your coaching?
Zoe Crosland [00:38:32] Yeah, I think for me I was just it was it was very like, yeah, you're the coach of the under-fives, training is on Thursday. Great, have a good time, here’s your equipment. And it was kind of, I guess, understanding a little bit more about how the season works. I had no idea what the under-fives games looked like when I started. And I had parents ask me daily, you know, what does it look like? What do I do on a Sunday? And for the first three, four weeks, I just kept saying, look, I don't know, like, I'm not sure what it looks like myself. And I guess I really had to. I guess. Ask the club for more guidance. And, luckily, I have those connections that I could actually ask old coaches, previous coaches of what am I actually doing? You know, like, how does this actually work? And going onto Football West and, you know, reading a little bit more about how things worked and. Like Cam said, you know, like it's. It's a rewarding job, but it's it's not easy. And I think there's a little bit more to it than just rocking up on Thursdays and training a group of kids. And for me, that probably wasn't communicated very well at the start. You know, like, even Saturday night, we sit down and I go through the teams on Sundays, and that changes four times before kick off on Sunday and, getting, you know, parents to register and stuff, you know, like, I had no idea about how to go about registrations. And I had so many questions I was being asked by parents that I just couldn't fulfil, you know? So for me, I guess having a little bit more guidance through the background of that and, how to ask well, to know answers to parents questions. Because I always just felt so guilty, I guess, in myself, not knowing as a coach, the answer to these questions. And these parents, I guess, have committed to a season and I couldn't answer what they needed.
Will Vickery [00:40:31] Yeah. So I can say that there obviously makes those conversations you had early on with the parents about getting involved all that more challenging when you don't have answers and you're still asking them to be a significant part of the sessions themselves.
Zoe Crosland [00:40:47] For me, I also like I really had to think about it and I guess look at it from my daughter is they're still really young, you know, like they're five, you know, like they're really in my eyes babies. And sometimes you've got to get down to their level, you know, be silly, you know, like I've got a sticker a box at the end of the training session. At the end of training, everyone gets a sticker, you know, and, little kids minds go everywhere. And, you know, they have questions and they're curious, you know, and I had a training session the other way and it was absolutely pelting down with rain. And I don't think half of these kids had ever trained in the rain before, had never heard thunder, lightning while being on an oval, you know? And at the end of the day, I thought, you know what, let's talk about the rainbow. You know, we spoke about colours of the rainbow. We spoke about what rain feels like. You know, we got down, we got muddy, we got grassy, you know, and just at the end of the day that they're only kids and they're learning and it's a journey for them and help them through that journey, you know. And, I think within yourself as a coach, have expectations. But don't be hard on yourself when you don't meet those expectations and know that that's okay. And I'm so glad that I put my name down and I did it like it's made such a big difference to myself. And yeah, just just jump in and give it a go. Like, it's actually the best thing in the world, and I get so much out of it. And, it's just really nice to be a part of a good community and see these kids enjoying a sport that meant so much to me growing up. And, yeah, speak up, ask questions, you know, and reach out. You know, there's so many resources out there and so many people that are there to support. It's just as a coach there's learning that you can do too, you know, and there's things that you can do to improve yourself. And, yeah, just give it a go. Like it's, it's the best.
Will Vickery [00:42:43] Any words of wisdom from yourself Cam?
Cam Tradell [00:42:45] I think Zoe, nailed it to be honest, I don't really want to add anything I think, if that would be the thing that I thinks key. The the only feeling I would put over the top of it is that, you’re not alone, to Zoe's point is that you reach out for help, but the way you're feeling after your first session and the way you're feeling after your third session, every, so many of us have been there before, and so it's not like you're going through something, you think, I’m the worst, this has never happened to anyone else before, I feel bad. The truth is, everyone goes through it because you've got to unlearn a lot of things and learn and a lot of new things. So be kind to yourself and give yourself a break. Seek out the help, as Zoe said, which I think is amazing advice. And yeah, don't don't take everything personally. Understand you're going to have challenges but know that the the rewards are certainly there at the back end.
Will Vickery [00:43:45] Thank you both for coming in and helping, hopefully to shed some light on how to survive those first few weeks of coaching.
Thanks for listening. To learn more about community coaching, head to the Australian Sports Commission's Community Coaching web page. I'm Will Vickery and I look forward to you joining me for the next podcast in the Coaching and Officiating series.
If you like today's podcast, please follow us wherever you get your podcasts and share this podcast with your teammates, fellow coaches and officials, and friends.
This podcast was produced in the lands of the Ngunnawal People by the Australian Sports Commission. We pay our respects to the elders, past and present, and recognise the outstanding contribution that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people make to society and sport in Australia.