Narrator [00:00:03] This is a Sport Australia podcast production.

Cam Tradell [00:00:08] Hello and welcome to our Coaching and Officiating podcast series. My name is Cam Tradell and I’m the Project Lead for Coaching and Officiating at Sport Australia. Over this series, we will look at what it takes to modernise Australia's coaching and officiating system. Each podcast, we will be joined by a special guest who will share experiences and practical tips on their topics. We are fortunate to be joined by Clare Ferguson today, Clare has a real passion for sport and the positive impact it can make on people's lives. Clare's own playing journey was extensive, having played for the Queensland Firebirds for eight years and ultimately several campaigns for Australia, where she had a fairy tale ending to her playing career when she captained Australia to the win in the 2016 Constellation Cup. Since retiring from the game in late 2016, Clare is currently coaching with the Queensland Firebirds, but is a real drive to make a difference on the entry level requirements of participants not just in Netball, but all sports and young people's relationship to sport and activity. With the support of Suncorp, Clare has developed the resources to support parents to recognise the activity requirements of children based on the Sport Australia Physical Literacy Framework. And that is what we would like to explore further today. Thanks for joining us this afternoon, Clare. How are you?

Clare Ferguson [00:01:27] I'm fabulous. Thank you so much for having me Cam.

Cam Tradell [00:01:29] Pleasure. Absolute pleasure, Clare. I'm really interested in how this all started for you. So you've finished your playing career, had a great playing career and as we say, a fairy tale ending. And then you sort of moved into your own coaching journey. But you've then seemed to pivot away to this area where you interested in how we develop people from the early ages. What was your motivation to be involved in that early development of participants?

Clare Ferguson [00:01:53] I think for me it was the influence that my early coaches had on my career. And I think that's something that lots of people talk about with elite and high performance professional athletes is the coaches that have a really big impact on your career and a lot of people expect the responses to be the high performance coaches that you did have and a lot of those people that I had, I had a lot of the greats of Netball involved in my journey, they were incredibly influential. But for me, the person that had the most impact on my sporting career, my life generally was my high school Netball coach. And she was the one that actually got me engaged in coaching when I had just finished high school and went back and coached grade eight. So that's where my coaching journey actually began. And I think that what I really valued in her and what I saw is the biggest influence that she had over me was the holistic approach, I suppose, that she had to my whole self and the development of my team-mates whole selves in our progression through adolescence and how she sort of set us up and equipped us for life just generally beyond the Netball court and the value that Netball and being involved and engaged in team sport had in the greater sort of spans of our life once we left high school. And so now that I've finished my playing career and I'm transitioning on to that coaching, I'm fortunate,  I'm engaged with the elite and high performance athletes now, but they started on grassroots courts and I still am really invested in this development of the next generation of players in Netball or any other code or athletes just generally because I saw what having great coaches did to my life. And I know that we still have such high dropout rates of young kids in sport these days. And within Australia, we should be the healthiest, fittest community out there based on, you know, our lifestyle and our weather and all those fabulous things that we have at our disposal and fingertips. And so I just want to ensure that our grassroots coaches are being equipped with what they need to be able to transition and help those athletes stay involved in the game. And also just because it gives you so much more satisfaction to the coach when you have some confidence and some direction and knowledge around what you're doing, because it really is the most satisfying job, I think, to have, whether it's voluntary or not, just to be able to influence and impart knowledge and shape these kids and what they're doing. It's just a really fortunate position to be in in life. And so I think I want to be able to help people understand that and to know it a bit better.

Cam Tradell [00:04:36] Funnily enough, when you started to tell that story, I thought immediately about people who impacted me, and I thought of that, too, that I wish they'd coach me for the rest of my life because I had those attachments. I really like the sound of that teacher and the way that they were able to get your attention and intrinsically motivate you to play. What do you think those components look like? What was it that was so good about that teacher that engaged you in sport or could it have been any sport or was it just Netball?

Clare Ferguson [00:05:06] Yeah, well, I was extremely tall from a young age, so Netball was sort of a default just as a result of my height. But I was also I really enjoyed athletics. The reason I chose Netball was because of the environment. I think that was created by that teacher. And I think what she did for me as a teenager and for the other girls that I played with as well, was she created a space for us to feel like ourselves so it was an area that we're accepted and we were accepted for who we were and we were able to recognise and acknowledge our strengths. And coming to Netball on a Tuesday and then playing on the weekends was more than just about skills and drills. And what she did was really focus on developing who we were. So all of those things like the ability to self reflect, the ability to set goals, the communication that we had, we formed these really amazing social connections as a team. It was the first environment that I learnt about what culture is and what it means to really commit to something and be persistent and passionate and dedicated. That formation and establishment of resilience. And so all of these greater, big broader concepts beyond just passing and catching. And don't get me wrong, she was also phenomenal in terms of what she exposed us to from a foundation skill level and tactically and she set me up in terms of the start of my elite Netball journey with that framework. But it was more about the yeah, the holistic approach she had to developing us as people. And I think she viewed it as a bigger picture thing than just us being high school Netballers. And so for the girls that played in that team, I mean, I'm still very, very, my best friends are three of the other girls that I played with, they were bridesmaids at my wedding, and I'll be friends with them for the rest of my life. And I think that, yes, she just had this really powerful ability to understand the influence that she would have over us beyond trainings and match play on the weekends.

Cam Tradell [00:07:14] That's incredible insight, isn't it? Is that the impact that a coach can make on you making a choice to stay in a sport? Because, again, you think about all your interactions with people at those times and you're exposed to so much of that time. This clearly is an interaction that was valuable and worthwhile and it shape your future.

Clare Ferguson [00:07:35] And I think that to understand that when children are going through adolescence, they're at this tipping point of transitioning away from the influence that their parents have. And so it's so vital for them to have these adult figures in their life that play a role in being a mentor. And for so many children, that mentor is found within their sporting community or their sporting environment. And they do have, I don't even know every elite athlete, every high performance athlete would be able to pinpoint and tell you about a coach that was engaged with them from either a grassroots or a junior development level that had an influential role of how they see themselves and how they see their game. And you don't even have to talk to people that are engaged in high level professional sport. It's just anybody that continues to play sport until late into their lives. Ask them about you know tell me one coach, who you loved it that had a real impact on you and they can just reel it off like that. The memory will just come back to them. And I think that shows the importance that if you can ask Joe Bloggsdown at the local footy park on a Saturday afternoon, did you have a coach that really made a difference to you? Yep. And he'll tell you straight away. That's what it's about. It's not about creating diamonds and wallabies and Olympians, which I mean, yes, that's incredible. If you have the opportunity to play a role in the progression of someone's career to the highest of high in terms of sporting accolades. But it's it's being able to influence somebody who will just remain engaged in sport and play it because they love it and be active and healthy and then be able to model that for their children and other people within their community. That's the impact that you want to have in terms of your contribution to society.

Cam Tradell [00:09:22] I like the approach because there's so many more aspects than the technical and practical and that tends to be through no fault of, I guess, anyone is that that's what you get drawn to because you think they're the things they have to coach.

Clare Ferguson [00:09:34] Yeah, 100 percent like when you get involved with sport. Isn't that where you think you're doing your coaching sport? But I mean, you know, and I know there's so much more to it than that.

Cam Tradell [00:09:44] That's what I'm really interested in, is the fact you and you're right, there is so much more. And it's about how do you get that hook? What's the intrinsic motivation for the people in front of you to be involved? And I'm really interested in how did you link inwith the Sport Australia Physical Literacy Framework? How did you first become involved in that and what did that mean to the way that you put things together?

Clare Ferguson [00:10:04] So I created the resource for Suncorp and they have a relationship with Sport Australia. And they floated the idea with me that they wanted to resource for parent and volunteer coaches. And so they sent me the Sport Australia, the Physical Literacy Framework. And I must admit, when I first looked at it, I was really overwhelmed because it is like I read through the official document and it is big and it is meaty. But when I actually sat down and kind of pieced it out and went through a lot of the different resources, the guide that was available for clubs and coaches and there is a guide for parents there, there are very easily digestible examples of it. And I think what I did when I was reading through it was I automatically thought of my high school coach, because then the four domains that sit within that Physical Literacy Framework. So we've got the physical domain, which is all about how our bodies move and the way that we do things. And then there's the psychological domain, which is more about how we feel when we're exercising. I suppose there's stuff to do with feedback and self mindset things and self reflective tasks and all of that and how we incorporate that into our physical movement. There's a cognitive side, which is where we come into the tactics and game plan, and they have to change and think online to evolve how we play and how we move, as well as goal setting and the role that that plays. And then there's a social side, which is that beautiful thing that sport gives us, which is connection with people around us and how we're able to engage with others. And when I was reading through it, I thought of my coach and how she was able to create all of those things for us within that framework for us as 13 year old’s through to the age of 17. And by doing those things, what she did was instill in us this lifelong desire and drive to be active, be healthy, be motivated, be self driven, proactive and all of these skills that you saw on the court transferred into the classroom, the boardroom, a way to life beyond Netball. And I when I was doing it, I thought really, parent and volunteer coaches who are turning up want skills and drills as a platform. Like if you give them a resource, that's what they want. They want you to tell them exactly what they need to do because they get stuck. But I think it's really important that they understand that sport is so much more than movement and it's so much more than skills and drills. And so to be able to provide them with an insight into what's important, to include a framework around this, these are some good things to put into your session. But these other things are really important and that you need to consider, including you don't have to pick all of them. You might just pick one thing that you're going to be going to, include with your team for a period of a year or a season or three or four weeks. And then you shift your attention and go to something else. But by including these things, you'll actually get more enjoyment from your players that if you just go down to the courts on a Tuesday night and play with them and then practice shooting for half an hour and then head to the game on the weekend, they still going to love it, but they'll love it even more. And they'll have lasting memories if you take this different approach. And I think the other thing that it speaks to, like what you were saying before, Cam, is you're going to have kids that are awesome at playing and that just get so much satisfaction and love out of getting on court and running around or going onto the track or the field or wherever they are and just playing. And they just love that because they're talented and they just love the sport. There are going to be other children that have come to Saturday sport because their parents have asked them to do it or because this is the thing that they are trialing and they're giving it a go and they might not get it straight away or they might feel out of place or their strengths might lie in different areas. And so if you change the way you run your sessions to include all of these different things, you're going to be targeting those kids that might get missed if all you're focusing on is the physical stuff. And so I think that I wanted that to be a thing that parents could take from the resources, having an understanding that we're catering for everyone here and we're catering for the strengths of all coaches as well. So you bring your own flavour and your own influences to how you want to do it. But that's sort of the yeah, I suppose that's sort of the approach in the hopes that I have had when the resource was created.

Cam Tradell [00:14:43] It's also comes down to that assessment piece of what can they do, what can't they do, what do they need to do? And then how am I going to create this session to engage with all of them? Because it's daunting as a coach when you turn up and you realise that, hold on. I've got people of different skills here, different levels, different enjoyment. How do I create these environments? And I think what you've done is you've given people maybe not always the answer, but the right questions to ask to how can I provide that environment? And I think that's really powerful for coaches.

Clare Ferguson [00:15:14] It is because you should I think when you're a coach, you've got to be creative and there's no right answer. There's no wrong way of doing things because everybody's ways, their own way, which is another reason why you can't just give someone a pack of skills and drills necessarily all the time, because that's not going to suit your group that you're working with, and it might not suit you and so being able to have those tools to be able to start asking questions or thinking about things I think is the best way to go around it. And what you were saying before Cam in terms of what are their skills at the moment and what do they need to be able to do? Like what are the things that they are missing or what are the things that they can improve on? Because not every child needs to be able to. I don't know. In Netball they don't need to be able to shoot from the edge of the ring or that they don't need to be able to do all of the skills right from the get go. We want to cover off on basic foundation skills, and some children may be more advanced than others, but you're never going to know that if you don't give them the ability to try. So if I was to set you out a whole heap of drills that just had basic dodging and passing in it, you may be missing this amazing opportunity. Your kids may be amazing at doing that. And then you're putting this limitation on their ability of where they can go to and not just capping, like the physical ability in terms of what they're able to do from a skill basis, but also you stopping the development of their cognitive development of their tactical thinking and integrating them into the planning of the session and being able to watch that side of things grow as well. So I think that's so important as a grassroots coach as well, is that, use the power that you have of engaging with your players to help you plan and help you think about how are you going to change and alter things and introduce new rules and concepts and let them be the ones that guide you. You obviously as well, you're the overarching emphasis, I think, particularly at that grassroots level. But again, use all those little amazing brains and their little skill sets to help guide way where you are going to take them to.

Cam Tradell [00:17:22] And that comes down to understanding what your session is. So when you're planning sessions, what do you want to get out of it? And sometimes the messier session that you do, you get surprised with where they're actually at because you're asking questions that you're not limiting the answer, you're allowing them to explore. And you tend to find that sometimes they're more developed than we give them credit for. And they shock us and we realise to how that can become boring for participants because they're not being extended. So I really like that.

Clare Ferguson [00:17:51] Yeah. And I think as well, it's your perception of what's fun and their perception of what's fun are two totally different things. And you may plan a session and you're like, oh my God, that was awful when you get there and you think, what a doozy, nothing went to plan then, but you might actually ask you players and they'll say "that was so much fun, I love this bit,  that bit I didn't love so much but still understood why we did it all". Not every session has to be liked by your standards, what is perfect or what is perfection, because we know in sport as well that games on the weekend aren't perfect. Sometimes they're an absolute ravel, they're just a mess and nothing goes to plan. And so being able to simulate those things in a training environment is perfect. And yep, at the end of the day, as long as you're building a relationship with your players and engaging them in the process, then you can't, we can't really go wrong with where at least where your intention is in terms of your planning and what you're trying to achieve.

Cam Tradell [00:18:47] And that feedback is crucial because it helps you with your future of, well, what is it that they actually love doing. I love what you said before too Clare, they they tell you what fun is rather than you imposing fun.

Clare Ferguson [00:18:59] Because yes, I mean, I'm not saying that adults don't know what fun is, but kids sure do like we know that I know fun is. And so let them tell you and guide you on what they want to do and how they run it. Yeah, it's the best way and seeing smiles on faces, like who wouldn't want to be involved in that every single week. Smiles and laughs. And that's where their memories are formed in that environment. So yeah, it's the best thing for you.

Cam Tradell [00:19:25] One last question for you, and it's one that I tend to use because I don't know the answer. It's out of the back of what you're passionate about, what you're doing. So the physical literacy work that you've given to parents to then help them, what would be utopia? What's the end impact that you'd like to see off the back of this? If you could make that one change, what would that be?

Clare Ferguson [00:19:46] An overarching utopian goal is that we have more children participating in sport for longer. So lifelong participation in sport across their lives. And we don't see the drop out rates that we do now. And we also see parents modelling healthy sporting active behaviours for their children as well. So, I mean, that's the overarching goal. But I think my goal would be to turn up at a Netball Association on a Tuesday night and not seeing coaches role out the same session week after week and not seeing children standing still and waiting for their turn to be engaged in long lines of waiting and standing to be still. I would love to be able to walk in to Netball Association on a on a training night, and think oh my goodness this is incredible, that team's doing something so fantastic, those children. It's a session that's catered for the team that's just for them. And then I'll look somewhere else and see another team doing something completely different, all encompassing the same skills in terms of what they're trying to execute, but incorporation of different elements of physical literacy in there that make the session that the teams own and the coaches own. In a utopian world, I think that's what I would love and I would love children who are participating to feel immense value and satisfaction of being in that group environment.

Cam Tradell [00:21:11] Clare, I really appreciate your time today. Thanks so much for sharing your insight. So much to take away for othercoaches. So thank you very much for your time. Thank you for joining me today, if you'd like to find out more about coaching and officiating  or have any feedback or questions, please email us at workforce@sportaus.gov.au. My name is Cam Tradell and I look forward to you joining me for the next podcast in the Coaching and Officiating series.